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Raising Adults Not Kids Season 1 · Episode 50 · Guest

Linda Flanagan: Take Back the Game, Private Equity, and the $40 Billion Youth Sports Machine

46:11 August 24, 2026 With Linda Flanagan

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Summary

Parents spend an average of 3 hours and 23 minutes a day on their kids' sports on days with a game or a practice. That is a part-time job, and almost nobody chose it on purpose.

Linda Flanagan is a journalist, a competitive runner for most of her life, and a cross-country and track coach of 19 years. Take Back the Game came out of the gap between those roles: what she knew sports could do for a kid, and what she watched the system actually do. She got disillusioned in her first season of coaching, went looking as a reporter, and found an industry.

It is a $40 billion one, and private equity has been buying up the organizations that run it. The Aspen Institute puts average family spending at close to $1,500 a year, which Linda calls a lowball number once travel, tournament fees, and parking to watch your own child are counted. Thirty years ago kids started organized sports around age eight. Now at age eight they can compete for so-called national championships.

The shift she names is from a participation model to a performance model. Norway keeps 93% of its kids playing with local leagues, low costs, mixed ages, and no published scores. America sorts eight-year-olds into A, B, and C teams. Host Ryan Vet brings the generational frame, economic anxiety in the 1970s, shrinking families, milk cartons, and Annette Lareau's concerted cultivation, and Linda keeps returning to the through line underneath all of it: anxiety. The finding that should stop every sports parent is that the more money parents spend on a child's sport, the less the child enjoys it and the more pressure the child feels.


Key takeaways
1

Parents spend an average of 3 hours and 23 minutes a day on their kids' sports on days with a game or practice, according to the Aspen Institute Sports and Society program. Most of it is driving, because games are not in the backyard anymore.

2

The Aspen Institute puts average spending at close to $1,500 a year per child, roughly $1,000 on a main sport and $500 on a second one. Flanagan calls that a lowball number once travel, tournament fees, and parking to watch your own child are counted.

3

Youth sports is an estimated $40 billion industry, and private equity firms have been buying up the organizations that run it. Flanagan points to the Let Kids Play Act as the first real pushback.

4

30 years ago kids typically started organized sports around age eight. Now at age eight they can compete for so-called national championships. Commercialization and professionalization moved together.

5

The research runs the opposite way from the spending. The more money parents spend on a child's sport, the less the child enjoys it and the more pressure the child feels.

6

Norway keeps 93% of its kids playing by making sport local, cheap, and mixed-age, with no published scores and no travel until around 13. The system is built to keep kids in. America's is built to sort them out at eight.

7

In an NCAA study of 10 well-being metrics, collegiate women scored worse than men on all 10. Asked whether they felt overwhelmed by all they had to do every day, 44% of the women said yes against 17% of the men.


Terms defined

Plain-language definitions for the ideas in this episode. Structured for search and AI answers.

concerted cultivation noun · sociology

The sociologist Annette Lareau's term for a parenting style in which the parent's job becomes actively developing every ability and interest a child might have, so the child ends up with options in the future.

In this episode: Flanagan's answer for why parents in the 1970s and after felt they had to enroll kids in everything, sports included.

the performance model noun · youth sports

A youth sports system organized around identifying and developing the best players, with hierarchies, year-round seasons, paid coaches, and travel. Its opposite is a participation model, which is organized around keeping as many kids playing as possible.

In this episode: The single shift Flanagan says explains most of what went wrong, and the difference between America and Norway.

free play noun · child development

Unstructured, unrefereed play that children organize themselves, with no adult keeping score or correcting them. It is where kids practice negotiating, getting along, and handling themselves.

In this episode: What Flanagan says parental anxiety and the focus on skill building quietly eroded, and what one sports organization is now building back into practice.

opportunity cost noun · economics

What you give up by choosing one thing over another. Applied to a family, it is the hike, the beach day, the Sunday meal, and the ordinary time that a sports schedule takes without anyone ever deciding to trade it away.

In this episode: Flanagan's closing argument, and the reason she tells parents not to sleepwalk into it.


Notable quotes

Lines worth keeping, verbatim from the episode.

30 years ago, kids started playing sports typically around age eight, and now at age eight, they can compete for national championships, so-called.
Linda Flanagan 11:41
Parents spend an average of 3 hours and 23 minutes a day on their kids' sports when those kids have games or practices, which is mind-boggling. That's basically a part-time job.
Linda Flanagan 07:28
There's research showing that the more money parents spend on their kids' sports, the less the kid enjoys it and the more pressure they feel.
Linda Flanagan 18:04
We're kind of alienating them from family life, and taking away their responsibilities to the family.
Linda Flanagan 20:35
The more serious and intense and overprogrammed we make it, the worse it is for kids.
Linda Flanagan 30:35
Youth sports seem a lot more important than they are. This is why we have fights in the stands and referees getting punched in the parking lot, because it seems so important. And in fact, it isn't.
Linda Flanagan 44:21
The essence of youth sports is human relationships, children's relationships with their peers and with the adults running the stuff. And technology can't replace that.
Linda Flanagan 00:15
They already know how to be kids. So let them be kids, let them play, let them experience that.
Ryan Vet 19:45

Chapters

Jump to any moment. Timestamps deep-link the audio.


The guest
Linda Flanagan

Linda Flanagan

Journalist · Author, Take Back the Game

Linda Flanagan has seen youth sports from every side of the field. She competed as a runner for most of her life, raised three children through the travel-team era, and, because she was a good runner and serious about it, was invited to coach cross-country and track at a school. She stayed 19 years. Her disillusionment came fast. She went in thinking that being an accomplished runner and a mother would make her intentions obvious, and found instead that the relationship with parents could be adversarial in ways she had not expected. That turned out to be the tip of the iceberg.

She is also a journalist, so she went looking. Take Back the Game, published by Portfolio in 2022, is the result: an account of how youth sports became a $40 billion industry, and of what that industry does to the children inside it. Her case is that the money did not just make sports expensive. It changed what sports are for. Thirty years ago kids typically started organized sports around age eight. Now at age eight they can compete for so-called national championships. Commercialization and professionalization moved together, and the intensity landed on parents who were only trying to do right by their kids.

A graduate of Lehigh University, Flanagan holds master's degrees from Oxford University and the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy, and was an analyst for the National Security Program at Harvard University. She is a founding board member of the New York City chapter of the Positive Coaching Alliance and served on the advisory group for the Aspen Institute's Reimagining School Sports initiative. Her writing on sport has appeared in The New York Times, The Atlantic, Runner's World, the Aspen Institute's Project Play, and NPR's education site MindShift, where she is a regular contributor. She lives in New Jersey.

She is currently co-producing Beyond Stigma, a four-part documentary series on mental health among collegiate women athletes, with a team led by Villanova professor Rick Eckstein. The team has been at it for a couple of years, and as of August 2026 they are working on distribution and hoping to have it out this year.


Frequently asked

Straight answers to the questions this essay raises. Open by default, structured for search and AI.

How much do parents really spend on youth sports? +

The Aspen Institute puts it at close to $1,500 a year for a child playing a main sport plus a second one they dabble in, roughly $1,000 and $500. Linda Flanagan calls that a lowball average, because it does not carry the full weight of travel, tournament fees, and the parking you pay to watch your own child. Baseball and hockey run far higher. The cost she finds more startling is time: 3 hours and 23 minutes a day on days with games or practices.

Why is private equity investing in youth sports? +

Because youth sports is an estimated $40 billion industry, and parents feel they cannot opt out of the options in front of them. Flanagan says private equity firms have been buying up youth sports organizations, with travel and tournament fees as the big expense families carry. She points to the Let Kids Play Act as the beginning of real pushback.

Does spending more money on youth sports help kids? +

The research points the other way. Flanagan cites work showing that the more money parents spend on a child's sport, the less the child enjoys it and the more pressure the child feels. Her explanation is that the spending raises the expectation, so the child starts playing to please the parent or to avoid letting the parent down.

What does Norway do differently in youth sports? +

Norway keeps 93% of its children playing by making sport local, very cheap, and mixed-age, with no scorekeeping, no published scores, and no travel competition until around age 13. The system is designed to keep kids playing rather than to identify the best ones. America sorts eight-year-olds into A, B, and C teams to develop talent early.

What does Linda Flanagan say about AI in youth sports? +

She thinks the enthusiasm is overblown. She attended a conference where roughly two thirds of the sessions were about technology for evaluating kids, filming them for college coaches, and wearables tracking VO2 max and sleep. Her position is that it can be a useful tool for a conscientious coach, but that youth sports are fundamentally about human relationships, and technology cannot replace those.

Are collegiate women athletes struggling more than men? +

An NCAA study of 10 well-being metrics found women scored worse than men on all 10, some significantly worse. On feeling overwhelmed by everything they had to do each day, 44% of the women said yes against 17% of the men. Flanagan is co-producing a four-part documentary series, Beyond Stigma, on the subject, with a team led by Villanova professor Rick Eckstein.


Resources mentioned
Books
Also mentioned

Transcript
00:00 Cold open
Ryan Vet · On this episode of the Ryan Vet Show.
Linda Flanagan · Technology can't replace that. Yes, it can be a tool. A conscientious coach can use it to build workouts and devise training plans and all that. But the essence of youth sports is human relationships, children's relationships with their peers and with the adults running the stuff. And technology can't replace that.
00:28 Meet Linda Flanagan
Ryan Vet · Welcome to another episode of the Ryan Vet Show. I'm excited to have with me Linda Flanagan, who is an author, a journalist, a former coach. She recently wrote Take Back the Game, and I can't wait to talk about that book. She also has an exciting documentary that we're going to touch on, so stay tuned for that. Linda, welcome to the show.
Linda Flanagan · Thanks for having me, Ryan. Happy to be here.
Ryan Vet · Absolutely. Before we hit the record button, we started talking because you and I had a pre-call, got to know each other a little bit and shared some great conversation a couple of weeks ago. And then before we got on, I said, everywhere I've turned there's been a new article somewhere about kids' sports and the money being poured into it, or private equity backing it, and all of that. So we're going to cover that and tackle that in just a minute. But I'd love for you to tell your story to the audience, and what inspired you to write Take Back the Game as someone who loves the game but has seen it get morphed and changed over the years.
Linda Flanagan · Well, to confirm your point, youth sports is definitely having a moment. What prompted me to write the book was, essentially, I wear many hats. I've worn many hats in my life. I have an interest in sports because I've been a participant for a long time. Growing up, I played, and I've been a competitive runner most of my life. Not anymore, but it's been a big part of my life. So I came from that perspective. I have three kids. They're all out of the house now, but when they were going through it, it seemed too intense and kind of weird. And I felt myself getting a little too caught up in it, which I found perplexing, because I'm like, what? This is just kids' sports. I was also a coach for 19 years. Because I was a good runner and really into it, I was invited to be a coach at a school for cross-country, and then off and on for track. So I saw sports from that perspective, being on the other side of parent feelings. And then I'm also a journalist. So the various issues that came up as I was coaching and as I was being a parent on the other side of it, I was able to explore and do some research on, and all of that turned into a book. I'd been bothered very much by what I saw as a distortion in sports, a warping of them, a corrosion of what makes them valuable. I had considered sports in my own life as something that contributed to my health, certainly my well-being, my peace of mind with having three little kids. Running was a great outlet. It helped with my work, it helped with my writing. So I saw sports as being valuable in what they provided, and that's what I wanted to offer to the girls I coached. But the environment I went into, I quickly learned that it was not really about what the sport could do for you, but about how you could use the sport to your advantage. And so I started exploring that and uncovering rocks and finding some fairly unattractive realities in the system.
03:56 The first season that changed how she saw youth sports
Ryan Vet · I think there's just so much to unpack there. Growing up, and I had shared this with you previously, my parents always said we had to do one team thing and one individual thing, whether that be a sport for the team thing or an instrument for the individual. And that was always a part of it. We also had some really firm boundaries. My parents wouldn't let us play travel sports, and I came of age in that time where travel sports were becoming all-consuming. I had some friends that, because everyone was going to be the next Michael Jordan, we grew up in Chicago in the 90s, everyone was on track for that. And I did see the joy get sucked out of something that was originally meant to be fun. I love that you're tackling this, because I think so many people that love sports, and I would not say I'm necessarily a sports lover, but people that love sports, they double down and go deeper and they want their kids to do the same, and it becomes a part of their identity. But at some point you had this moment where you said, wait a minute. You pumped the brakes and said, this isn't right. What was that moment for you?
Linda Flanagan · Oh boy. I think it was almost the first season I was coaching, and maybe in retrospect it was naive of me, but I thought, well, here I am. I'm an accomplished runner, I'm a mother, so I can identify as a parent. It was clear to me that I really just cared about the kids. I really wanted them to do well, and I was interested in their whole selves. I was interested in them, and I thought that would be obvious. And then I realized, even that very first season, that it could be adversarial in a weird way that I hadn't expected. Which was really just the tip of the iceberg. It was a reflection of parent expectations of coaches, and what this sport can do for you, and the overinvestment in kids' sports, even from the very beginning when I started coaching. And that's all gotten more pronounced. It got more pronounced as I continued to coach, and since I stopped, because of the intensity and the cost. The costs have gone through the roof. And probably even more so is the time parents are expected to devote to this stuff. That's primarily travel sports, but school sports can also be demanding. So I was disillusioned pretty quickly, and really disappointed, because sports can do so much for a person. They can really help a young person, especially young girls who are so self-conscious and insecure, and running can really fortify you. I was really disappointed by that. And of course the girls were great, and most of the parents were great too, but it was like, wow, this whole other force I hadn't appreciated really was a big factor in youth sports.
06:59 3 hours and 23 minutes a day, and $1,500 a year
Ryan Vet · That's good. And you have some stats on how invested parents are and how much time they're spending on sports for their kids. Do you mind sharing some of those?
Linda Flanagan · Sure. I think this is the most startling to me. It was a recent study put out by the Aspen Institute Sports and Society program, which is really the definitive youth sports repository for information. They do reliable research, and they found that parents spend an average of 3 hours and 23 minutes a day on their kids' sports when those kids have games or practices, which is mind-boggling. That's basically a part-time job. And most of that, I think, is driving, because games are not in your backyard anymore. Cheering, laundry, meals, all of the logistics. What is expected of families is crazy. That's just out of control. And the cost also, which again, according to the Aspen Institute, is close to $1,500 for kids who play, typically who might be playing two sports, a main sport, which is about a thousand bucks, and then another $500 for the second-tier sport, which they may just dabble in. And by the way, that number is a lot higher. That's an average. Many parents spend thousands and thousands of dollars, and it's also dependent on the sport. Some are very expensive. Baseball is a fortune, hockey's a fortune. So $1,500 is really a lowball number. But the combination of the money and the time puts enormous strain on families and parents.
08:55 A $40 billion industry, and what private equity is buying
Ryan Vet · I can see that. Growing up, I played soccer and baseball, and I loved baseball. I loved indoor soccer, because nine months out of the year in Chicago, that's about all you could play. But baseball was just always fantastic. And I remember, it was one of my final years playing, we had a parent, super well-meaning, and they invested a tremendous amount of money on behalf of the team, getting us customized jerseys that were better than the league's, making sure we had matching cleats, and they would bring in pitching coaches and batting coaches. And we're talking about 12 years old here, maybe 13. Great lessons, great resources. I'm grateful I was the beneficiary of those. But I think what you've seen and what you've said, and you started to talk about it, but I'd love to dig deeper, is we've seen almost this commercialization of sports. We've seen money being dumped into sports, not just from parents, not that $1,500 per child, but from organizations too. Sports are no longer that community game. Can you talk a little bit about the commercialization that we're seeing?
Linda Flanagan · Well, that's the elephant in the room, because it's a giant industry. Parents are paying this much because there are all these options out there that they feel they have to participate in. It's estimated to be a $40 billion industry, with now private equity firms. There's been a lot in the news about private equity firms buying up a lot of organizations. And travel is the big expense for parents, travel and tournament fees. So $1,500 is a pittance for so much of the youth sports universe, when parents spend for tournaments, parking to go in to watch their child. It's a giant industry. And now there is some pushback on it, which we're seeing with the Let Kids Play Act. But commercialization, the way it's been described is that youth sports have moved from a participation model to a performance model. Whereas in many other countries it's about getting kids to play, keeping more kids playing, ours is about performance and getting kids out, in effect. So there are hierarchies. This is a feature of the commercialization and professionalization of youth sports. There are hierarchies, there are year-round seasons, there are paid full-time coaches, and it's happening again at younger and younger ages. So, 30 years ago, and I'm impressed by your story that you were 12 when this very well-intended parent spent this money to get you fancy uniforms and stuff, that's happening younger now. But 30 years ago, kids started playing sports typically around age eight, and now at age eight, they can compete for national championships, so-called.
Ryan Vet · Wow.
Linda Flanagan · So it's just the commercialization, and it goes hand in hand with professionalization of youth sports. So all those factors have just ramped up the intensity and the expectations on parents and kids, of course, on kids.
12:23 The 1970s, milk cartons, and concerted cultivation
Ryan Vet · So what are some of the societal pressures you feel have driven parents to invest so much? I have some thoughts generationally, and why certain generations invest in the world. But before we get into my thoughts, I want to hear your perspective. What are those societal pressures pushing parents to push their kids?
Linda Flanagan · Well, it's a complex set of factors that kind of gel and create this sort of environment that we're in. It's not any one particular thing. But those of us who look at the problem would say it started in the 70s, when inflation became really bad. The 70s was kind of a pivotal decade. Inflation got bad, so there was more economic anxiety. How are our kids going to make it? That has not let up, by the way. I think we're in a new round of that with AI and everything. Combined with these changes in family structure, so more divorces, more single-parent homes, the shrinking of the family unit. The typical family used to be six, four kids. Now it's shrunk to two parents and two kids. And now sometimes single parent, two kids, whatever. And because the family size has shrunk, those children became more scarce and thus more precious. And beginning again in the 70s, there's this sort of shift toward making children the centerpiece of the household, and doing everything. Parents felt enormous pressure, and continue to, to develop their kids' skills, even vague interests. The sociologist Annette Lareau calls this concerted cultivation, that parents have felt they had to do everything in their power to develop their kids' abilities and interests so that they would have options in the future. Economic anxiety was a contributor, just worry about how their kids are going to turn out. Also in the 70s and 80s, we had the introduction of missing kids on milk cartons. I still remember sitting at my kitchen table and seeing these grainy photos of missing kids, and this obsession with stranger danger, and you can't trust anybody. So kids therefore needed to be supervised constantly, and that continues to this day, despite our historically low murder rates and the unbelievable unlikelihood of any child being abducted. Not that it can't happen, but it is unbelievably unlikely. But it is a guiding force in how parents raise their kids. They don't let them walk to school, bike to school, constant supervision. And it makes sense then that you would want to give them every opportunity. They need to be supervised. Well, what's a good, healthy thing? Youth sports. So that's contributed to these larger cultural factors, the pressure on parents, anxiety. I think anxiety is like the through line. Worry about how kids are going to turn out, and this fear that if I don't cultivate their interests, if I don't monitor their grades and oversee everything, they're going to fall through the cracks and they're going to be left behind. So that's only gotten more intense, I think, even since I had kids, and since the 70s as well. So all of those factors, it's kind of a toxic stew. And with the economic anxiety, one of the American ways is to think, well, get them into a good college, a great, well-known, prestigious university. So that of course is like an article of faith in most middle and upper middle class communities. You want to get your kid to the best school possible. Prestige, status, and it's like a ticket. So all the more reason to put them in sports, because it is commonly known, I think by now most parents know, certainly after the Varsity Blues scandal, that high-level athletics can get you into college easier. And it's a fact that colleges have lower admission standards. Some offer athletic scholarships. It's a streamlined process. So that's another reason to get heavily involved, put your kid in, and maybe the more obscure the sport the better, and hope that it will be a way into a better college. It's the money, changes in parental attitudes, and these enticements at colleges.
17:19 More money, less fun
Ryan Vet · I think you've hit on so many things that I often talk about, not just with sports, but how a generation of parents was really well-meaning. They wanted what was best for their kids, and they wanted them to be well-rounded, they wanted them to have access. We just had Izzy Kalman on the show, and his final line was, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And I think a lot of that, obviously not his original line, but there's a lot of truth to that. I don't blame the parents for trying to do good, but in trying to force our kids to be professionals at age eight now, you said, which is unbelievable for a travel sport, there's a lot of risk with that.
Linda Flanagan · Yes. There's another data point that I think is really important for parents to know, which is that there's research showing that the more money parents spend on their kids' sports, the less the kid enjoys it and the more pressure they feel. Which stands to reason if you just think about it. When I think about the parent that paid for your uniforms and everything, well intended, I want these kids to feel good, aren't they sharp out there, and they have the best stuff. But in fact, especially for the child whose father or mother did that, it just increases the expectation. Well, I hope you play well, you've got to earn this. It shifts, it becomes more about pleasing the parent, or being afraid to let the parent down. And that doesn't help with child development, or really getting the benefits of athletics. It just adds a whole other complicating factor. But parents do it out of a sense of love and wanting to do the right thing for their kids.
19:01 What performance takes from family life
Ryan Vet · Yeah. You said something else a minute ago that I think was also powerful. When you were talking about the family dynamic, you said as families had less and less and less, and now we're below replacement values. I mean, we're at about 1.6 kids, which is very concerning, but that's a whole other conversation. We start to see that in the 70s and the 80s and the 90s. And I think parents forgot this. Michaeleen Doucleff, who was also on a couple weeks ago, we talked about this idea that kids are born into our world, we're not born into theirs. And I think that's a really important idea as parents, because we love our kids, we want to do everything for our kids, but we've got to bring them along, and we're raising adults at the end of the day. They already know how to be kids. So let them be kids, let them play, let them experience that. We don't have to hold them into adulthood, into putting them in professional uniforms and putting them on planes to go play.
Linda Flanagan · Yes. I love her thinking on all of this. I think she has also said that the way we organize activities for kids, we undermine their incentive to be part of the family, to contribute to the family. And if their main duty in life is to get up and go to practice and have all their stuff so that the coach doesn't yell at them, forget about emptying the dishwasher or making the bed or walking the dog or any of the duties that are part of the running of the household. We're kind of alienating them from family life, and taking away their responsibilities to the family. Because by focusing on the performance, their athletic performance of all things, it undermines their contributions to the family. And I think that's such an important thing to keep in mind when you're raising kids.
21:03 How free play eroded, and who is building it back
Ryan Vet · Absolutely. Now, I was thinking, because I'm thinking about my childhood a lot, and again, not from a family that cares much about sports. I did grow up in the 90s in Chicago, so we had the best sports teams, with the Cubs and the Bulls, I would say of all time. So that was about as obsessed as I ever was with sports. But we also played a ton of pickup games, whether that was basketball in our driveway or street hockey on rollerblades in a through street. Have you seen, or do you have any data? Has that gone down now that there's so much organized sports? Because there's so much good in that unrefereed sports and scraped knees from those rollerblades.
Linda Flanagan · Yes. Well, that's all a part of this parental anxiety and stranger danger, and the need to not participation, it's performance, the focus on skill building. That has just eroded free play, all the benefits that go with kids playing in the front yard with some neighborhood kids, or going to the playground. God forbid they might get plucked off the merry-go-round. All of that has, like you say, eroded free play, which we know, and I know you've had Lenore Skenazy on, is vital to kids. And it's not only for their development, their bodies, their abilities, as if you only care about sports, even like it's important for that, but obviously for their mental health and their confidence and the ability to negotiate and work, figure out how to get along with other kids. It's critical. And thanks to Lenore and Jonathan Haidt, who emphasizes this along with getting rid of phones, I think there is more attention being paid to the importance of this and how we need to find ways to bring it back. And I should add that there's a sports organization that includes free play as part of practice, because they recognize that kids who can play without adults yelling at them and saying, no, do this play, you're on the wrong side, the kids benefit from playing without people screaming at them. So some teams, and this is Steel Sports, is the name of the organization, has incorporated free play into their practice. And it has proven to be successful, from what I understand.
Ryan Vet · That's amazing. We put our two boys, our daughter's only crawling, so too young for that, but we put our two boys into Soccer Shots, which is a national program, but it's all about skills building, about teamwork, and then they let them have a scrimmage at the end, but there's no organized gameplay. And it's been really fun to watch them learn the importance of respect and responsibility and taking initiative, and skills still, they're learning how to play soccer. But it's much more structured, actually, at the beginning, not on how to be competitive, but how to build character and build skill. And then the second half of every practice is just scrimmage. And sometimes the coach will jump in and play with them, but most of the time they just run around, and they don't know what they're doing, but they're playing.
24:18 What Norway does differently
Linda Flanagan · Yeah, it's like an amoeba moving around the field, right? It's a mass of kids. But they're having fun. That's such a good example. That's the main thing. You want kids to have fun when they're playing, because if they're not having fun, they're not going to want to do it. It's such a basic principle. If you want your kids to play, it has to be fun. And the younger they are, the less it has to be about performance. It should be about friendship and of course learning some things, but giving them opportunities to be children. And we have a way of stripping that away in sports in this country. And I should point out, I don't know if we talked about this in our other call, but in Norway, and we always like to talk about Norway, those of us who look at youth sports, because they have such a different way of approaching them. 93% of kids play in Norway, because it's local, it's very cheap, and there's no scorekeeping. There's no travel up until a certain, I can't remember when they start doing travel. I think it's about 13. There's no publication of scores. Kids play, multi-ages play together. The point is to keep kids playing, to get more kids moving. And I think that is in many ways such an ideal model, but it clashes with the American way of competition. You've got to learn how to compete, and hierarchies. We've got to separate kids into the A, B, and C teams so we can develop the best players when they're eight years old. And it has all these drawbacks to it. But is it two sons who are playing soccer, did you say?
Ryan Vet · My two sons, yes.
Linda Flanagan · Yeah. So ideally that kind of positive, lighthearted, let's not worry about the score play environment would continue beyond when they're really young. But it's third grade, I'd say second grade, third grade, there's going to be more about performance at that point.
26:36 AI, wearables, and whether 10-year-olds need stats
Ryan Vet · And it all changes. Before we get into the documentary, because I really want to talk about that, you've made me think of something else. We haven't talked about this yet in any of our conversations, but the impact of AI in sports. I've got a good buddy who works with some of the top athletes in the world and professional athletes, and he uses all these AI apps. He sat with me once and put my body on there and watched it move and told me how I was moving incorrectly and which muscles were, it was cool, way above my head. Have you seen any of those types of apps that are almost AI coaches, or analysis of a golf swing or a batting swing? Have you seen any of those impact kids' sports?
Linda Flanagan · Okay, well, fairly recently I attended a conference on basically the business of youth sports. And I would say two thirds of the sessions were about technology and new ways of using technology to basically evaluate kids. Evaluate, help them develop, improve their swing, film them doing something great that they can then share with some college coach, presumably. Wearables that can detect VO2 max and sleep and other indicators of exhaustion or fatigue, when they might need a rest. So I would say that the youth sports industry is really bullish on technology, including AI, and how it can help coaches devise training plans, all of that. So yes, it is huge in youth sports, the enthusiasm for it. Now, I have to raise my hand and say I think it's way overblown. I'm sure it can be a good useful tool. It's a tool. But youth sports are fundamentally about relationships. They're about moving through space physically with other people, hopefully other children, and having relationships, and with a coach, a human being who's going to connect with you with any luck. Technology can't replace that. So yes, it can be a tool. A conscientious coach can use it to build workouts and devise training plans and all that. But the fundamental, the essence of youth sports is human relationships, children's relationships with their peers and with the adults running the stuff. And technology can't replace that. That's my bottom line, and I could be proven wrong. God knows I've been wrong before. But I'm not nearly as, wow, this is going to change the world, when it comes to youth sports, because any kind of athletics is about moving your body. It's not information. You use that information, but it is about implementing that. So it seems like of limited value.
Ryan Vet · I appreciate that. That's helpful, and interesting that it was a topic of conversation. I didn't even think about the wearables and that whole aspect.
Linda Flanagan · So that's a lot. But wearables are big.
Ryan Vet · I mean, I know for adults, but for kids, that didn't even compute with me.
Linda Flanagan · Well, yes. Do 10-year-olds need, do we need to keep their stats? Is it important that the coaches keep track of the data of their performance, how many swings they took? Is that important for 10-year-olds? And I don't think it is. I just don't. The more serious and intense and overprogrammed we make it, the worse it is for kids. And by all means, after a certain age, all that stuff can apply, and the serious, talented players deserve all that, and maybe they can use it. But for the overwhelming majority of kids, it doesn't make any difference. And that's not what it's about.
Ryan Vet · That's so true. That's so true.
Linda Flanagan · I have spoken.
31:04 Beyond Stigma: collegiate women athletes and mental health
Ryan Vet · I appreciate that insight. Now I want to transition to this documentary, this project that you're working on. It's exciting to chat about. You got extremely passionate about women in collegiate sports, and that's inspired you to go down a whole new path, bringing storytelling in video form to that. Could you share a little bit about what you're working on?
Linda Flanagan · Yes, and I want to point out that this is a team of people who have been working on this for a couple of years, led by Rick Eckstein, who's a professor at Villanova, and it's on collegiate women athletes and mental health. And what we have found, and we interviewed a ton of people, researchers, women of various ages, athletic directors, and others to talk about their experience, is that girls and young women are really having a different kind of experience than their male counterparts. First of all, and this is true at younger ages as well, girls get hurt a lot more often. They're much more vulnerable to injury, susceptible, which contributes to mental health problems, because these kids who've been playing one sport their whole life and have been throwing themselves into it are the ones who are apt to get hurt. And then when they get hurt, they're even more devastated, because it's their whole identity. So that hurts girls more. And then at the collegiate level, there's this NCAA study from a couple of years ago. It's a study on well-being, and it looks at 10 different metrics of well-being, and it compares the men and the women, and in all 10 metrics, the women scored worse than the men, and some significantly worse. The most notable one that I recall is, I feel overwhelmed by all I have to do every day. 44% of the women said yes to that. 17% of the men said yes to that. Anxiety, depression, sleep trouble. I'm not sure that was one of them, actually. Anger. Even anger. It must be bad if the women are angrier than the men. So that sort of breaks the stereotype, but the young women are just not having the same positive experience that the young men are, by and large. And of course, I always want to point out, yes, there are some who love it, and some of the men hate it for the same reasons, the amount of time that is expected of them, the way it takes over their life, the way college sports have just mushroomed and taken over students' whole college experience. And many of the young women aren't happy about this, more so than the young men, I would say.
Ryan Vet · I'm so excited you're sharing that story. And how can people find out more specifically about that documentary that you're working on?
Linda Flanagan · Well, with any luck, it will be out this year, and we're working on distribution. It's four parts, and we're really excited about it, and hope that it will start people talking about how we can make college sports, and actually youth sports, both better for girls and young women. Because we essentially have just slapped on the male model. After Title IX, it's like, well, girls can do this too, and yes, they can, but if you just use the identical models, girls can't run as many miles typically as boys, especially as they get older. They have different makeups and hormone levels, and it's just not healthy for them. And we're hopeful that the documentary series will start a conversation about ways to improve it for women.
35:00 Narrowed identity, and the mother who wishes she had emphasized kindness
Ryan Vet · Well, I can't wait to watch that when it comes out, Linda. I think it's going to be absolutely fantastic. I want to kind of round third and head for home, using my best sports analogy that I rarely use. But as we round third and head for home, what are the long-term effects? We've touched around it, we've danced around it, but we haven't gone right after it explicitly. What are the long-term impacts of over-emphasizing sports in young athletes?
Linda Flanagan · Well, I think for one thing, it can really narrow your identity as a young person. I've heard this. If you read about former Olympians, Michael Phelps has talked about this a lot. And of course that's an extreme case, but they've devoted their lives to this one thing, and in his case reached the pinnacle of success. And then who are you when you're done with that? Well, that same logic applies to young people who have been playing a sport since they were eight years old, and maybe they play in college, and it's all they are. That's who they are. It's just a limiting kind of view of life, I think. Which isn't to say there aren't really wonderful things, and I always want to point that out. Sports can teach you a lot of good things, discipline, hard work, all that. But most kids aren't going to be playing in college. If your family life revolves around a kid's sport, it seems very limiting to the child and also to the others in the family, for whom one kid's soccer career is not that central. It's also very hard on parents. The way sports can take over family life, that becomes the definition of childhood. And I had some interesting conversations with parents, including one recently, where the mother told me, and her kids are also out of the house now, she looks back on how she raised the kids, and sports were a big part of it, a big part of the kids' lives. She's like, I wish I hadn't done that so much. I wish I had recognized that performance in lacrosse or soccer doesn't really matter that much, which is one of my themes. It's not that important. And she says, I wish I had emphasized kindness more. Her kids are great. But that emphasis that families are apt to put on sports, the way it's the central organizing principle and everything revolves around it, can be a distortion of values that are actually, when you really sit down and think about it, much more important to you. It's much more important to her that her kids are kind than that they can guard a goal. But it kind of insinuates itself, and you don't think about it that way. And I think that's a really hard thing as a parent, to keep your perspective and say, well, what are we doing here? And what is it that's important to us, and to me as a parent? And I want to turn it back to you, Ryan, and ask, why did your parents say no travel sports? Because that's an example of them saying, not for us. I know this is the culture, you're supposed to go do this, and at a certain grade you go play travel baseball. Have you talked to them about why they said no to that?
38:48 Sunday games, church, and the opportunity cost
Ryan Vet · I do. I think there's two reasons. One is family legend. I don't know how accurate the story is, but story has it that my grandfather was drafted professionally in baseball and walked away from it because he didn't want to play ball on Sundays. That's the family legend. We won't explore that too deeply. Practically, for my family, my dad was a pastor, and so we couldn't leave. He had to be at church on Sundays. And so it was more of a practical reason, I think. I've not explicitly asked them that.
Linda Flanagan · Yes.
Ryan Vet · But I don't regret it at all.
Linda Flanagan · No, but see, that's another one. And I'm not a religious person, but if you are, it's like, sorry, you've got a game. It's one more example of it taking over other values that might matter to your family. Maybe it's going to church, or having meals together, like a Sunday meal, whatever. But if you can't hold the line about your values, then it's going to take over. And religion is a perfect example. We know that participation in religion is on the decline in this country, and I don't think youth sports are helping with that, if there are games every weekend, including Sundays, as there are. So, good for your parents.
Ryan Vet · I was recently talking to a megachurch pastor in a state that has mountains on one side and the ocean on the other side, about an hour and a half or two hours from many of their campuses. And the conversation was had that it used to always be the mountain houses and the beach houses that they would compete for on Sundays, but now it's kids' sports.
Linda Flanagan · There you go. Something is lost. The other thing I think parents might consider, and I don't like to tell people what to do, is that there is an opportunity cost when you do this, and this is more of the longer-term impact on a family. There's opportunity cost when you're spending all this time on sports. You're not going to the mountains on a family hike, you're not going to the beach as a family. It's revolving around this schedule that is probably fairly arbitrary. And I think that's sad. And that's fine if you make that decision, but not to sleepwalk into it, I think, is also really important.
41:26 Resentment, regret, and what parents can actually do
Ryan Vet · Absolutely. Well, I want to go back to third real quick. I picked you off trying to steal. So one question I had, and you mentioned you talked to some parents that almost have regret. Have you seen any kids have resentment toward their parents because of the forcefulness, or even, as kids we want to please our parents, it's innate in us. Have you seen any resentment from kids?
Linda Flanagan · Oh, yes, of course. I'm thinking of this one young woman who felt that it was so important to her father that she play, in her case, soccer. And she felt like she kind of lost herself in there, and that it was incredibly important to him. And it created enormous friction between them. Again, because it really can morph into something that's about the parents more than it is for the benefit of the kids. And if you look at pro athletes, many of them had conflicted relationships with their parents because it was so important to their parents. But yes, I have heard that. And I've also heard other young people who said, I'm so glad my parents didn't make me do that. I'm so glad that I played multi-sports growing up, even though other kids weren't. I'm so glad we had a family life. So I've heard it on both ends.
Ryan Vet · That's good. Well, I appreciate that. In just a sentence or two, what practical steps, if you give one piece of advice, what practical steps can either parents, policymakers, or communities take to support healthier sports?
Linda Flanagan · Okay. At the community or policy level, I think to whatever extent possible, to try to provide as many local options, and this is all dependent on budgets, but as much as possible to try to expand and improve the local options. Maybe it's working with the Boys and Girls Club or the Y. It's local sports where kids are kind of healthy and sane, because there's not a lot of money involved and there's not travel and it's community, and that's what sports should be about. You get to know your neighbors. So I think they're really important for communities, and to any extent that they can be preserved or resurrected, that is a plus. And I think for families, it kind of goes back to the point about sleepwalking. To recognize, to try to do everything in your power to maintain perspective, because it is really hard to hold on to your perspective about what is at stake here. Youth sports seem a lot more important than they are. This is why we have fights in the stands and referees getting punched in the parking lot, because it seems so important. And in fact, it isn't. It just isn't that important. There are things to be learned, and there's fun to be had, and there's all kinds of positives, but in terms of life outcomes, it's not as important as it seems. And to try to step back as much as possible and hold on to your values, like your parents did. And also, that you have agency as a parent. Just because everyone else is doing it, I always believe no one knows what they're doing. No parent really knows what they're doing. Just because the neighbor's doing it doesn't mean they're right. So hold true to your values.
45:10 Where to find Linda
Ryan Vet · Yeah. Well, Linda, that's been so good. This conversation's been so insightful, and I appreciate your time. How can people find out more about your book, your work, the upcoming documentary? How can they find out more about you?
Linda Flanagan · Well, let's see. My book is right there on Amazon, Take Back the Game. I have a website. I'm always happy to do talks at schools and other places. And on my website I have a lot of articles I've written on the subject, and interviews, and I'll also be updating information about the documentary, Beyond Stigma. And follow me on LinkedIn too. I'm all over social media, so I'm easy to find for anyone who wants to reach out.
Ryan Vet · Awesome. Well, Linda, thank you so much for this conversation. And everyone that tuned in, thanks for listening to another episode of the Ryan Vet Show. Until next time, I'm Ryan. Inspire forward.
46:02 Close
Ryan Vet · Thanks for tuning in to the Ryan Vet Show. Be sure to subscribe, comment, and like this episode. Plus, share it with someone who needs to hear it.
Full show notes

Parents spend an average of 3 hours and 23 minutes a day on their kids’ sports on days with a game or a practice. That is a part-time job, most of it spent driving, and almost nobody signed up for it on purpose. Linda Flanagan has spent 19 years coaching high school cross-country and track, most of her life as a competitive runner, and several years as a journalist reporting on what happened to kids’ sports. Her answer is that an industry grew up around parents’ anxiety and quietly changed what sports are for.

Youth sports is an estimated $40 billion business, and private equity has been buying up the organizations that run it. The Aspen Institute puts average family spending at close to $1,500 a year, roughly $1,000 for a main sport and $500 for a second. Linda calls that a lowball number once travel, tournament fees, and the parking you pay to watch your own child are counted. Thirty years ago kids typically started organized sports around age eight. Now at age eight, they can compete for so-called national championships.

The shift underneath all of it is from a participation model to a performance model. Norway keeps 93% of its children playing, because sport there is local, cheap, mixed-age, and scores are not published. America sorts eight-year-olds into A, B, and C teams to find the best ones early. Host Ryan Vet brings the generational frame: economic anxiety starting in the 1970s, families shrinking until each child was scarcer and more precious, missing kids on milk cartons that turned constant supervision into a moral duty, and the sociologist Annette Lareau’s concerted cultivation, where a parent’s job became developing every ability a child might have. Put those together and organized sports looks like the responsible choice. Anxiety, Linda says, is the through line.

The finding that should stop every sports parent runs the other way from all of it: the more money parents spend on a child’s sport, the less the child enjoys it and the more pressure the child feels.

In this episode:

  • The $40 billion industry, and what private equity is actually buying
  • 3 hours and 23 minutes a day, and why $1,500 a year is a lowball number
  • Why eight-year-olds now compete for so-called national championships
  • Participation versus performance, and what Norway does differently
  • Concerted cultivation, stranger danger, and the 1970s roots of sports mania
  • The research showing more spending means less enjoyment and more pressure
  • How the focus on performance quietly strips kids of their role in the family
  • Why free play eroded, and the organization building it back into practice
  • AI, wearables, and why Linda thinks the tech enthusiasm is overblown
  • Whether 10-year-olds need anyone keeping their stats
  • Beyond Stigma, her documentary series on collegiate women athletes and mental health
  • The NCAA well-being study where women scored worse on all 10 metrics
  • Michael Phelps, narrowed identity, and who you are when the sport ends
  • The mother who wishes she had emphasized kindness over lacrosse
  • Sunday games, church, and what a family trades without deciding to
  • Opportunity cost, and why the real risk is sleepwalking into it
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